LANCASTER – Members of a police-monitoring team were introduced to the community Wednesday night as part of a court-enforceable agreement for wide-ranging reforms in the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department’s Lancaster and Palmdale stations.
Speaking at a town hall meeting at the Center for Spiritual Living in Lancaster, the monitoring team said it will work with both the Sheriff’s department and the community to assure compliance with the Justice Department’s mandate for fair policing throughout the Antelope Valley.
“We come from many professional backgrounds, and we see this as an opportunity to bring research, data, evaluation, policy work, technical assistance – things we do in our other projects and communities across the country to improve outcomes and to make an impact that makes a difference,” Alexander Busansky, lead monitor for the team, told a packed church of more than 200 people.
Busansky is president at Impact Justice, a national innovation and research center based in the San Francisco Bay Area. His monitoring team is comprised of about seven individuals – none of whom reside in the Antelope Valley.
Charles Hart, an attorney with the Special Litigation Section in the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, said the monitoring team is a “group of outstanding individuals who were chosen by the Sheriff’s department and the Department of Justice to ensure that during the next few years, the Sheriff’s department actually implements the reforms of this agreement in a way that furthers the community’s trust in transparency that we all seek.”
According to the agreement, the LASD agrees to deliver police services that are “equitable, respectful, and bias-free, in a manner that promotes broad community engagement and confidence in the department.” [View the LASD-Antelope Valley settlement agreement here.]
Hart emphasized the role of significant community engagement, saying that both the Sheriff’s department and the Department of Justice recognize community trust and transparency as essential to policing the communities of the Antelope Valley.
“That is the underlined goal of all of the reforms in the agreement,” Hart said. “The agreement requires related training and forward-thinking approaches to policing, such as procedural justice and police legitimacy, training on implicit bias so that deputies can better understand the impact of bias on their decision making, and training that motivates officers to participate in positive non-enforcement interactions with community members to reduce the impact of implicit bias.”
Implicit bias is a key finding in the Justice Department’s findings after an investigation was launched in August 2011, just two months after the local NAACP and other civil rights groups filed a federal lawsuit claiming black and Latino families using Section 8 were victims of constant, unbearable harassment at the hands of housing authority investigators, sheriff’s deputies and local politicians. [View the complaint here.]
The DOJ’s Civil Rights Division on June 28, 2013, announced the conclusion of a two-year investigation that found deputies from the Lancaster and Palmdale Sheriff’s Stations routinely targeted African-Americans and Latinos for stops, seizures and excessive force. In addition, local deputies and housing investigators purportedly intimidated and harassed African-American housing choice voucher holders, according to the DOJ findings.
Both local sheriff’s stations created their own Community Advisory Committees to strengthen a partnership between the community and law enforcement since the DOJ’s investigation began.
And following the agreement with the Justice Department, Sheriff’s officials have been making policy changes to re-establish community trust and constitutional policing, according to LASD Commander Jacques “Anthony” LaBerge, Chief of the North Patrol Division.
“We want to make sure that we’re doing the best job we can in a lawful way… We’re making those policy changes,” LaBerge told the community at Wednesday’s town hall meeting.
LaBerge said the department has already changed about a third of the requested reforms mandated in the agreement, and those policies are already being implemented.
“Several (policies) involving Section 8 enforcement practices performed prior to 2011 are no longer in place,” he said. “If we do get involved in a request by the Housing Authority to perform a Section 8 compliance check, there is a whole list of protocols that must now be met.”
In addition to reducing bias in its practices, the court-enforceable settlement agreement between the DOJ and the Sheriff’s department also requires reforms pertaining to LASD’s data collection, as well as training and accountability systems to improve the quality and effectiveness of LASD’s interactions with Antelope Valley residents.
The settlement agreement also provides for a monetary fund of $700,000 to compensate persons harmed by LASD’s alleged violation of the Fair Housing Act, and a civil penalty of $25,000 to the United States.
One of the questions asked of Sheriff’s officials and members of the monitoring team at the meeting was: What happens if local law enforcement does not comply with the agreement?
“We expect this to be a very collaborative process, and it has been so far,” Hart answered. “But if there is any dispute as to whether or not those (required) practices actually are in compliance with the agreement, then the court would be the ultimate authority.”
Busansky agreed with other speakers at Wednesday’s meeting that transparent and effective policing as outlined in the agreement ultimately rests upon active participating from the community.
“I think the words we heard tonight about community, collaboration and engagement are values that we share,” Busansky said. “Many of you have been part of this for a number of years. But for us it is the beginning, and we look forward to getting to work with you, to talk with you – whether you’re in the Sheriff’s department or in the community – to be able to learn what we can to be able to do our important work.”
To contact the monitoring team, email Aaron Juchau at community.antelope@impactjustice.org.
To contact the DOJ’s Housing and Civil Enforcement Section for Section 8 and Fair Housing issues, call 1-800-896-7743 (mailbox 98) or email them at fairhousing@usdoj.gov. To reach the Special Litigation Section regarding policing issues, call 1-877-218-5228 or email them at community.antelope@usdoj.gov. Additionally, the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station can be reached at 661-948-8466, and the Palmdale Sheriff’s Station number is 661-272-2400.
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AVSUX says
I’d disown my own child if they decided to become a cop. Cops ain’t nothing but the enforcement arm for the corrupt political leech class.
Tim Scott says
Agreed.
HHH says
Tim,
You write pages of crap. I am not a cop hater, you do not represent me with your babble. Go away. nOmega, your response is perfect, I agree.
Tim Scott says
I am not trying to represent you. You are part of the head in the sand everything is fine hey why is there a riot crowd that I find so deplorable. But if I get one person in that crowd to open their eyes I call it a good day, so no, I have no intention to go away. Maybe you should try ending your demand with “or else” and puffing out your chest while you type.
For my part I would prefer that you NOT go away. Your “I have no argument that makes any sense so I’ll just call names and play keyboard tough guy” is the PERFECT representation for your unsupportable position. Your venom will open as many eyes as my reason and help make my case for me.
HHH says
Babble. “Key board tuff tough guy” I can’t stop laughing. You have no idea. You type SO much crap it’s hilarious. Venom, oh my gosh, you crack me up.
“Your case” so funny. You just love to babble.
Tim Scott says
HHH…do you have anything to contribute here?
HHH says
All kidding aside, you scare the $hit out of me. I am afraid of people like you.
Tim Scott says
Yeah, people who can string thoughts together in logical sequence must be really intimidating to you I suppose.
Public servant says
Tim Scott is a cop hater. He is very biased against law enforcement. I believe he stays awake at night thinking about what to write next about his hatred for them. He’s a typical Liberal lumping all law enforcement together, all bad no good. It’s always their fault no matter what. There is more to Tim than meets the eye.
Tim Scott says
LOL..another stream of consciousness outpouring of speculative nonsense. From someone calling themselves a “public servant” no less. Question: does that refer to the blatant falsehood painted on the door of the car you drive when you are out collecting the random tax?
I always find it hilarious when people talk about “cop haters.” What else do you think there is? Get outside the circle of cops, their families, and their pet leg riders and explore among the ordinary folks. You’ll find that the BEST thing people might think about cops is “necessary evil.”
I’ve spent YEARS talking bad about cops. Other than cops and their immediate families I have NEVER been challenged, by anyone.
If there’s a genuine good cop out there I apologize, but in my opinion the closest we can get is a cop who doesn’t participate in the usual thuggery, but certainly would never report his brothers in blue when they do. Thinking that cops will reliably police themselves leads to Rampart.
Ryan says
I find it odd, we all blame the Sheriff’s for issues the community turns their backs on. I joined a few of these community support groups to try to do the right thing, Guess what, Bike Gang supporters, Street Gang family attached to the people in the groups, turns into its the Sheriff’s its the Mayor on and on all day long. Turn on the TV, what do you really think most people think, Every day we have uneducated people mainly of color on shows screaming at each other one step from a animal in behavior, I would cringe if my Family had a member on Nation wide TV saying they are from the AV and every other work is “My Baby Daddy” “yoze Axed me What” Public assistance, losers ,Criminals on your TV Judge Judy, two other court TV shows, the Springer mess and Milkos etc, all have people sadly mainly of one color making stereotypical comments in cartoon fashion. Pants down their knees walking through neighborhoods when most people are at work(unless retired like myself) The media has made a mockery of young Black Males and Females and what your seeing is low IQ people following what they see in their community. Now put a Educated man or woman out as role models. No that does not sell the shows(unless its a older crowd aka Steve Harvey etc.) Now lets go full circle, your a Sheriff, a Fireman, A Policeman (of any color) and you deal with nothing but this brainwashed into stupidity stereotype all day long, chance getting killed everyday and have to watch them feed of the people that work as in welfare Section 8 give me this and that programs. Wake up. if you want the cops or for that matter people to treat you with respect act like a human, Not some lame weak minded pile of c**p that nobody in their right mind would want around them. Wonder why you get treated this way. look in the mirror
Danny says
Great job
Mr fed up says
People disrespecting the sheriff’s department on this website, but when theose criminals they said have been targeted unfairly, breaks into there home, or commits any other crime guess who there going to call, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s
Tim Scott says
I have operated for most of my adult life by the principle: there is no situation so bad that it can’t be made worse by calling the cops. It is very unlikely I will be changing that, so no, I won’t be calling the LACSD anything but names.
deb dugger says
the weekend the announcement was made that the civil rights case was going forward,,an elderly white man with a security clearance was shot in his bed by sheriff’s deputies..Has Eugene Mallory..ever recieved justice..Has the sheriff been brought up on murder charges? No!..The rhetoric from sheriff’s department deputies was that he was a “dirt bag’ druggie” If the department had done their homework..instead of rushing to the conclusion that all people are “dirt bag druggies” an honest upright man would still be alive..
Oh well.. when a man’s whold life of upright honest behavior can be wiped out and lied about by deputies protecting their backside instead of the truth..we as a community..black lor white…need to be afraid…very afraid….
Scott Pelka says
Here is a video of the meeting I recorded that night. The sound in the room was so poor that many were complaining they couldn’t hear. You will notice that none of the speakers at the stage brought up the fact that Rex Parris was the mastermind behind the unlawful raids and you have to ask how many millions this will cost the tax payers.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v89752074jtdE92BK
RLM says
First of all I find it offensive that a team of outsiders with any connection to the DOJ is chosen to monitor law enforcement in our community. The DOJ, in recent years, has done more harm to community relations with law enforcement than any other federal agency. The police are not perfect, but for the most part they do a good job, under adverse circumstances, and the result of neutering them to the point of being ineffective is now evident in Baltimore. Odds are, if you conduct yourself in an honorable and respectful manner, you will never even come into contact with them. I’ve lived in the AV for 52 years and only had one street encounter, when they issued me a fix-it ticket, although a warning would have sufficed. On the other, they responded the day my wife passed, and were the first to arrive to take over CPR that I had begun earlier. Even though the CPR was ineffective, the deputies were kind and thoughtful in a trying situation.
That being said, the LASD still needs to clean up their act in some respects. They should be exemplary in following the law and setting an example, even in simple things. Apparently they are not taught to park their cars lawfully while at the academy. Almost any day of the week, you can see a sheriff car parked on the walkway leading to the front door of the Palmdale sheriff station. Are they in that big a rush that they can’t park 50’ away in a legal parking spot, leaving the walkway unobstructed? Their driving should also be exemplary, but how often do we see them speeding, or violating some other simple traffic regulation without the benefit of siren and emergency lights, suggesting that a code3 response was not approved. Like citizens, if the sheriff wants respect, then they too must earn it. Mutual respect goes a long way.
So far as shooting an armed or unarmed citizen, each case should be assessed on merit. If anyone makes an overt or an aggressive act toward a deputy, with or without a weapon, then they deserve the consequences of the act. It’s easy to defuse a tense situation by simply showing respect, moving slowly, and explaining in advance any move you may make that could be construed as aggressive by the deputy. If you’ve lead a foot or car pursuit, or assault a deputy, you can expect the worst outcome, armed or not. Don’t expect the deputy to wait too long if you commit an overt act since the lack of a quick response by the deputy, could result in a dead deputy. Like all of us, they too want to go home after work, and not be hauled off in a body bag.
Sure, there are a few bad deputies, but most deputies simply want to do their job, and live to go home after work.
With regard to the committee of outsiders, especially any associated with the DOJ, we should tell them to go home and mind their own business and, instead, appoint a committee of local citizens, representing a cross section of the AV community, to monitor the sheriff’s department.
Tim Scott says
“I find it offensive that a team of outsiders with any connection to the DOJ is chosen to monitor law enforcement in our community.”
“That being said, the LASD still needs to clean up their act in some respects. They should be exemplary in following the law and setting an example, even in simple things.”
Notice the contradiction here. You are offended that outsiders are assigned the task, but acknowledge that the task needs to be done. Outsiders have the task because our community FAILED AT IT. You site a few examples, and they are typical. Deputies do not follow the law, period. They do whatever they can get away with, and shielded by a badge and gun they can get away with a lot.
Rather than even try to rein them in, our elected officials use them as goons in their private wars. While I strongly condemn Imperious Rex for dragging them into his private war on poor people, note that the community did not exactly leap up in arms when it happened. As for our designated “law enforcers,” did you notice them telling Parris “That isn’t our function?” I didn’t. Their response was “Wheeeee! Home invasion time! Suit up!!!”
“It’s easy to defuse a tense situation by simply showing respect, moving slowly, and explaining in advance any move you may make that could be construed as aggressive by the deputy.” This is good advice. Maybe this committee will direct it AT THE DEPUTIES. I’ve encountered them a couple times, and have seen no indication that they are interested in defusing a tense situation. They made it clear that as far as they were concerned escalation was just fine, as at the end of the day it would be me shot dead and no difference to them. Show respect? Not in their job requirements, clearly. They start at aggressive, and any response short of a kowtow is grounds for escalation, even if they have already started out leaps and bounds beyond any legal authority they might have.
“Sure, there are a few bad deputies, but most deputies simply want to do their job, and live to go home after work.” Well, they sure don’t want to jeopardize their paychecks standing up for citizens against the “few” bad deputies. Which is why we need outside supervision and investigation. They have proven time and again that the “blue code” prevents them from investigating themselves, and as a community we have demonstrated neither the will nor the ability to do thing one about it.
deb dugger says
How about Eugene Mallory’s family on the panel…
Tim Scott says
I’d be in favor.
Cali Palmdale says
I got a grat idea why donnt we also create a team to monitor at all times all the thugs all criminals rapist gangsters all the scum in the valley. Do you people that think cops are bad think that criminals have better respect that cop.
Rambo says
great idea cali, i dont think those magnificent 7 can do their job the way they look…. i want to be with them and assess them myself
Cali Palmdale says
Rambo you are right and it looks like they are sitting in some kind of church well of course they are going to feel bad for all the thugs we have to put religion aside just like killer and rapist and all the bad seeds don’t think about religion when they commit there crimes or disrespect the law enforcement. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN PEOPLE IF YOU GET STOPED PULLED OVER BY A POLICE OFFICERS FALLOW INSTRUCTION AND UNLESS YOU OWE HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE YOU WILL BE ON YOUR WAY IN ABOUT 5 MINUTES. If we dint have this great law enforcement in this country it would be like in other countries that nobody respects any officer it would be more of dump than what it is already. WE NEED TO CLEAN THE AV OF ALL THE TRASH make more rules for sec 8 drug test them randomly make them find a job also for WALFARE if you worked in the past you have earned some help not for life till you get back on your feet. there are people on walfare that have never worked in there life’s now is that fair no and the ones that get all that free help still complain and are bad mouth officers.
Rambo says
Omega
You are right, Those Law Enforcers deserve our respect just like when we met a stranger that served or serving this country for our freedom we say “Thanks for your Service” so when a USAF Bomber drops her payload, who do you call to complain to?
– to become one of them is not as easy as 1,2,3
Tim Scott says
As a veteran, I would prefer it if rather than thanking me for my service you stood up for the rights I risked my life defending…rather than letting them be eroded away by a gang of jackbooted thugs just because they have been issued badges.
Robin P_ says
Agreed.
Veterans Unite says
Shame on you ! Bunching all law enforcement into one category.they are not all hired thugs as you put it. Just like in any profession there is good and bad. I believe most all of the veterans would disagree with your opinion and name calling. Look at our government, some good some bad. They are not all the same. I can tell the way you speak your opinions you are a Liberal. I’ve lived in California for 63 years and always have been respectful to everyone and I have never had any problems with any branch of law enforcement. Maybe because I obey all the laws. God Bless the USA
Tim Scott says
I don’t personally have problems with law enforcement officers, because I avoid them like the plague that they are. But that doesn’t prompt me to keep my head in the sand about what they are.
The federal investigation of the LACSD wasn’t a “random witch hunt”, and it did not conclude that the LACSD needs outside monitoring just because they thought outside monitoring would keep someone busy. The LACSD is among the national leaders in shootings of civilians, and the rate at which they shoot unarmed civilians has quadrupled since the ruling that “I thought he was reaching towards his waistband” was acceptable for justifying shooting unarmed people based on officer safety.
After the Rodney King riots and the Rampart scandals vast reforms were instituted in the LAPD. Officers who either immediately saw that they didn’t want to work under “those conditions,” and officers who in short order started getting into trouble because they just couldn’t follow the new rules (ie, the LAW) resigned…and most of them got jobs with PDs in surrounding communities or the LACSD. We are now paying the price for law enforcement “taking care of their own” by allowing those thugs to just switch departments to avoid reforms.
As to not “lumping them all together,” the day I see evidence that the supposed “good cops” are willing to stand up for the citizenry against the glaringly bad cops I will happily stop lumping them together. But for now there is no question that the “code of brotherhood” is far more respected among members of law enforcement than the law is.
BooHoo says
Cops got nothing coming and are the LAST people I’d call for anything.
DumbIsTheNewSmart says
I wish I was on this monitoring team. Anything that makes and AV cop’s life more difficult is a good thing.
Plz Leave the AV says
@Tim Scott Your first sentence is one of the main reasons why there are so many problems here in the AV. Too many people feel like you and find themselves in a cell after they feel they do not need to “Respect” Law Enforcement. Keep drinking the kook aide and you will come to the realization that your distorted view on what is the right way to live is achievable. Try it, work and be a upstanding citizen and the results will amaze you. Regardless of what cor you are.
Tim Scott says
I’m a very happy, fairly successful retired person who expects no respect I don’t earn. I have no respect for local law enforcement because all they are is hired thugs collecting fines to support the city governments. They are not even expected to contribute anything to making this a better place to live, for anyone.
So, bottom line, take your assumptions about me, rethink, and try again.
Tim Scott says
Speaking of earning respect instead of just expecting it…what exactly makes you assume you are even remotely qualified to advise me on how to get “amazing results” in life? You have no idea whatsoever what I’ve tried, what work I do, what I do in regards to being and “upstanding citizen”, not clue one. All in all, the first impression you have made is ‘obnoxious know it all who doesn’t bother finding out anything before pontificating.’ I see no reason to give you even the remotest respect, and even the basics of courtesy are due to the rules of forum behavior, not anything I think you have earned.
Plz Leave the AV says
@Tim Scott I don’t care what you do or what you have done. Your ignorance is how I base my opinion of you. If your a Dr or a Lawyer or a Pilot or a Teacher then I hope I don’t ever have to subject myself to the stupidity that you believe in. I think it’s safe to safe you relocated here in the AV from another city in the hopes of gettin in where you fit in. How are you contributing to this community in a positive “Respectfull” way? Oh silly me you troll lil sites like this in the hopes of rallying more peeps and Fam. No I didn’t mispell that , that was specifically for you ! Bye Felicia
Tim Scott says
Actually I was born here.
JustTweakIt says
I think having them monitored by video would work better. Every police car equipped with a 360 degree camera that can start recording when they get a call or even when they exit their vehicle for a traffic stop. If any wrong-doing does occur they could be dealt with accordingly. With the money being spent on that “Eye Soar in The Sky” and the money to pay these 7 people 80% of the vehicles would have a camera on it in 5 years. I just thought I would throw that at there. Stay Safe in The A.V.
Johnny Trece says
I wish these babysitters success.
David says
I am a Tea Party conservative and an old tired white guy. From what I have witnessed over the last 5 years the LASD is out of control…wild cowboys who run ruff shod over everyone. In their reality there is US VS THEM. Who is the THEM? The THEM is the citizen paying taxes. I have personally seen cops acting like idiots. I have to laugh when I read about the cops having “Community” policing….and they send a “Good Cop” to make you feel all warm and fuzzy….the problem is if you get pulled over for any reason you will not be with Good Cop…you will be with his friend Bad Cop who will be rude and abusive. That is the police culture here in the AV. They would call it aggressive policing. My advice is to avoid cops like AIDS…
Tim Scott says
I’d say that the big problem is that the supposedly “good” cop is fully aware of what the blue clad thugs are doing on the street and does nothing about it. Of course it is most likely that at any time other than during the community policing dog and pony show even that “good” cop is out there thugging it up.
jazzy says
Thanks to the ghetto, lying, rude, and think there invincible people who act like animals and dont know how to be respectful law abiding citizens that reside here in the Antelope Valley has ruined the mindset of many people who work in the community. You can be a Police officer, server, retail worker and you still deal with these people who have no respect, but act like animals and try to consistently pull the racist card. There are a lot of good deputies. But these people cannot put there guard down. We live in a town that has the WORST crime rate. If I was a Deputy and I felt like this out of control person does something that I feel my life is at risk I would shoot them. I have a family that needs me. Antelope Valley needs to train these people who live here how to calmly respectfully talk like normal human beings. Teach the rights and wrongs of stealing, lying and teach that while being on public assistance you dont deserve to served like a King or Queen..
Tim Scott says
Not to confuse you with facts, but we live in a town that has an AVERAGE crime rate. If you are going to base your defense of the cops on outright errors you aren’t doing them any favors.
Rambo says
You are exactly right, You should join the Monitoring Team. Its how AV residents conduct themselves in public. They don’t have any respect for themselves and the LAW, specially the Sheriffs that protect and serve US.
Tim Scott says
Before I retired I spent a large part of my working day driving around. I saw a lot of cops. At a rough estimate, 90% of the time when I saw a cop car the driver was breaking the law. I have plenty of respect for myself, and for the law…just none for law enforcement personnel who think the law is a club they get to use and not something that applies to them.
Protect and serve? That’s such a joke it is almost obscene.
Tim Scott says
Yeah sure. Stuff that gets reported will get reviewed. The daily law breaking by law enforcement that doesn’t get reported won’t get reviewed, and most “reports” will dead end at the deputy at the end of the phone line they are called in on.
This whole “collaborative effort” is dependent on the cooperation of the deputies, and our substations have been the dumping ground where the worst are sent by one of the worst law enforcement agencies in the country for decades. To pretend they are going to cooperate is just plain stupid.
The whole tenor of “restore community trust” is that the fault lies with the community for losing faith in the good men of law enforcement in the first place. Tell any cop that you don’t like cops. Hundred to one their response is “only criminals don’t like cops.” They absolutely believe that the only reason they have any problems with the community is because the community is “full of criminals.” Their behavior, and the behavior of their “brothers in blue” is, was, and always will be perfectly fine in their eyes.
Mr fed up says
The antelope valley, didn’t have a problem with the LACSD, until all the criminals got released and started moving out here along with section 8, think about ! Problems just bring problems, people expect cops to do there job, with a hand gun, when the criminals got machine guns
William says
@mr fed up
Thank the NRA/GOP for making so many machine guns available to criminals.
Yeah, that’s right. They are a front for the gun manufacturers who need to sell product year after year to stay in business. There are about as many guns as people in this country and the manufacturers want you to buy more especially after a mass killing in an elementary school or a movie theater.
Don’t give me your need for guns to protect yourself. Well trained and well armed cops get killed in their patrol cars in New York or sitting in a restaurant in Las Vegas. And, the gun nuts think they need to carry a gun around town and into a restaurant such as in the ‘greatest state’ called Texas.
Don’t you think it was ironic that Chris Kyle was killed, while well trained and armed, by a fellow gun nut? What good did it do? What chance do you have against an armed criminal that shoots you in the back. It’s not going to be like in the movies you love, is it?
The Founding Fathers didn’t foresee the ignorance of modern day Americans. How could they? They were wise, educated and intelligent men unfamiliar with fox ‘news’ and the neo-cons.
If you are one of the locals here who complain about all the liquor stores contributing to crime, do you also see that the proliferation of so many guns in this country also contribute to crime.
There aren’t many criminals using nuclear devices in this country because they are ‘well-regulated’ like our militia was supposed to be.
More bars and liquor stores, more drunken driving and crimes.
More guns, more killings. Figure it out. Both are legal. RIGHT?
Jason says
Mr Fed up was wrong about criminals having machine guns just like you are wrong about the NRA/GOP being at fault for there being so many machine guns. Fully automatic weapons are the most regulated firearms there are and have been for nearly 30 years. The last time I can recall any fully auto weapon being used in a crime was the North Hollywood shootout and those guns were illegally modified.
So gun manufacturers have to sell guns to stay in business? You mean just like every other manufacturer of products out there? Novel thought, let’s sell our products to not go under. And maybe gun sales wouldn’t spike after a mass killing like Aurora or New town if the government didn’t overreact and try to ban weapons in response. Rather than confront the issues behind the shootings and the broke systems, their response is to ban certain types of firearms.
And why does a person that wants to carry, concealed or open, have to be labeled a gun but? Because they want to protect themselves and their families because law enforcement is minutes away? I see reports all the time about a “gun nut” stopping a crime because they were carrying her the MSM won’t speak a word of those situations.
Maybe if lawmakers actually put forth effort into there being serious consequences for using a gun in a crime or if lawyers and judges would quit handing out plea deals and people started doing more time for gun crimes than people caught with a small amount of pot, things might be different.
William says
“And why does a person that wants to carry, concealed or open, have to be labeled a gun but?”
Your words, Jason. You forgot the second letter ‘t’, however. We all make typos occasionally but yours was so appropriate.
Tim Scott says
“I see reports all the time about a “gun nut” stopping a crime because they were carrying her the MSM won’t speak a word of those situations.”
I see reports where a woman who is afraid to go to WalMart without being armed gets shot dead by her toddler because her purse with gun is in the cart. Or a guy who wants to be a hero turns an unpleasant but not particularly dangerous “gimme the cash” robbery in a grocery store into a scene from a Death Wish movie by starting a shootout with the robber. Or a minor traffic accident turns into a deadly encounter because someone feels the need to have a gun in their car to feel safe about being a jerk to a fellow driver and then has to “protect themselves.”
What I don’t see are these “stopping a crime” situations. Armed and dangerous people don’t stop crimes, because they generally don’t see the crime coming until it is well into happening…and when they see it they just make it worse with their loose cannon.
William says
@Jason
You’re just parroting right wing/NRA propaganda re: guns. No thinking required.
Before you try to turn that back on me, have you ever heard anyone else talk about well-trained, well-armed cops being murdered by guns in response to “carrying protects a person”? I haven’t so far because I thought of it myself. That’s the difference between you and me.
Answer my point about well-armed, well-trained cops getting shot in their patrol cars in New York City or sitting in a restaurant in Las Vegas.
Yeah, carrying will protect you. How come it didn’t protect those cops or Chris Kyle, for example?
Yeah, you’ve heard a report about someone preventing a crime, yada, yada, yada; a familiar right wing/NRA/ fox ‘news’ line.
I knew you were going to reply. You can’t help yourself but then you won’t address the fact that more guns in the country, more criminals will likely have them too and, hence, more gun crime, like the bars and liquor stores analogy.
Didn’t the NRA/GOP/fox ‘news’ fight background checks for every single gun sale, even at gun shows? Doesn’t some 80% of the country support that, even many NRA members.
Golly, Jason, by your reasoning, some 300 million firearms in this country would make it the safest place on earth. But, then again, we’ve already gone over your ‘reasoning’ before.
The first 3 words of the 2nd Amendmant are ‘A well-regulated…” You guys just ignore that. You do realize that a liberal court in the future can interpret the 2nd Amendment in a totally different way, don’t you?
Then what?
OK. I won’t y’all ‘gun nuts’ any more. I like Bill Maher’s ‘ammosexuals’ as a better, more accurate term.
Jason says
William, its called autocorrect. Nice way to avoid every thing else.
Tim, you’re right that those situations happens. Unfortunately those types of situations are talked about and not ones where’s someone tries to rob a business and gets stopped by someone who is carrying. It happens more than people think but because MSM doesn’t talk about, most don’t know. Defensive use happens but all we here about are the ones that aren’t.
William says
“autocorrect”?? Really, Jason.
It changed ‘nuts’ to ‘buts’ or was it ‘cuts’, ‘huts, ‘guts’.
Oh, well. I think it made the point very well.
Thank you.
Jason says
William, I’ve answered that point before about the cops. Kind of impossible to protect yourself when your ambushed. And you aren’t the only one that’s tried to play that angle.
The fact you keep going to the GOP/NRA/FOX news line shows you only want to talk about one side of the issue while ignoring facts that don’t agree with your stance. Facts are guns are used in defensive cases and preventing crime. Fact is MSM refuses to talk about it and I expect nothing less considering the fact they have given the president and other gun control advocates the air time to talk about the 40% gun show loophole myth and won’t talk about how that info is false and faulty
Sales by FFL dealers are already required to have background checks. Some states don’t require them for person to person sales while some states dont. The NRA opposed the universal background check legislation because it didn’t cover fixing the mental health problem in this country nor did it fix problems reporting those with mental health issues into NICS. Two major problems that arent major talking points of gun control advocates.
I won’t address the more gun equals more gun crime? That’s funny because the DOJ and the Pew Research center have both released studies the last few years showing that gun related crimes have gone down over a period of 20 years. Gun ownership increased over that time yet gun crime went down. Kind of odd how that’s worked out no, considering that you think more gun ownership means more gun crime no?
I ignore that the first three words of the Second Amendment are “A well-regulated? Seems to me I live in a state with some of the strictest gun control laws that do nothing but restrict law abiding citizens . Sounds well regulated to me with all the hoops I have to jump through to be able to own a firearm in this state. And you do realize a liberal SC might not interpret it any differently right? What will you do then? Continue on with falsehoods and hyperbole because you want to push your beliefs on someone else?
Tim Scott says
This is such an unbelievable crock. The LACSD is among the nation’s leaders in shootings of UNARMED people. Not people with machine guns. Not even people with handguns. People who are completely UNARMED. This doesn’t even count the people they shoot who are “armed” with a pocket knife, or a piece of pipe they picked up, or heaven help us, a ROCK.
And as to when it started…when I was a teenager, which was a LONG time ago when there was nothing out at 60th W but the county overflow jail at Mira Loma, nine deputies determined that the only way they could “disarm” a skinny woman with a plastic knife was for the whole pack of them to draw down and shoot her twenty times, so your theory about the prison having anything to do with their attitude is apparently flawed.
All I expect from cops, particularly the LACSD, is for them to be law scoffing thugs who think their badge is a mark of entitlement. I am seldom disappointed.
Mr fed up says
The hand gun, machine gun, was just a quote, the sheriffs have a hard job, they have to follow within the law, when scum is breaking the law, then uses the law to accuse the one upholding the law, that there breaking the law, hypocrisy…
Tim Scott says
Maybe it would be a hard job…if they actually did follow within the law. But since they don’t they are now being monitored.
Jason says
Pocket knives, pipe and rocks can and have been used as deadly weapons. Someone within 20 feet armed with a knife can be within striking distance in under two seconds. Someone armed with a pipe can fracture your skull and kill you while being outside of your arms length. A baseball sized rock in the side of the head will kill you.
Tim Scott says
Doesn’t change the fact that the chances your garbageman will be killed on the job are substantially higher than the chances a cop will. And your garbageman doesn’t get to use that fact as an excuse for shooting people at random.
Jason says
And garbagemen don’t have people trying to attack them. Garbage men are more likely to be killed by their own vehicle than someone else’s. None of those facts change the fact that pocket knives, pipes and rocks are deadly weapons.
HHH says
Tim,
Do something better with your time, instead of writing your cop hating bull$hit. Try some volunteer work or something, maybe getting out into the world will change your nasty attitude.
Tim Scott says
So, you think we should all just continue to turn a blind eye to whatever the LACSD does in our names. So far that has led to a series of federal investigations, which people like you no doubt think are “baseless,” but have uniformly come back with “yes, the LACSD oversteps its authority yet again.”
This is what has happened in plenty of places across the country. Law enforcement runs amok. The local “good people” go about their business and pretend it isn’t happening. The community gets more and more alienated and frustrated, but anyone who complains is painted as “just a cop hating crank” and ignored. Federal investigations come along and the local “good people” help defuse whatever reforms are called for.
Eventually the tipping point is reached, and just waits for a Rodney King or a Timothy Thomas to run afoul of a cowboy cop doing what they always do. Then people like you will pretend that the results are entirely out of proportion to the “one isolated event” because you have done nothing but turn a blind eye to all the years of abuses by law enforcement that people like me tried to point out to you.
Those results are actually easily predictable, and when they visit our little valley I won’t be smiling smugly…but I won’t be sitting around thinking that I should have done something to prevent it, because I do all that I can.
Stick that in your idea about “volunteer work.”
Mr big mouth says
The problem started when Mr. Big Mouth declared war on Section 8. What a moron. A mayor of a small, insignificant city in the desert declares war on a federal program.
Sing it with me—-
Making dumb statements in the hot sun
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Declaring war on Section 8 was pretty dumb
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Now we’re being sued and it’s so sad
It’s gonna cost us at ton
He’s the worst mayor we’ve ever had
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
He’s costin’ people with his wild tongue
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
We miss Barb Little she was a good one
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Now we’re stuck with this ba-ba-ba bum
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Rex fought Section 8 and Section 8 won
Turd Ferguson says
That is good.That is good.Can you write a song about LEAPS?Can you write a song about LEAPS?
AV lover says
I agree with Mr. fed Up. The Sheriff department has been good. I have lived here since 1978. There was never a problem until the criminals from Los Angeles moved up here. The section eight are a big problem also. A majority of the youth of America are not raised to respect law enforcement. They do not believe they have to abide by the law. They have an us verses them mentality. The liberals are partly responsible for the problem by always excusing bad behavior with excuses. Most of the media today are libs and they love to spin the truth. Tim Scott is a typical liberal. Read his posts about cops (as he calls them) stirring up trouble not helping.
Tim says
The problem can be found on page 5 of the lawsuit complaint. “It is time to go to war.” The words of Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris. His marching orders said it all and the entire community it has suffered for his arrogance, lack of leadership and failure.
Tim Scott says
@nOmega
Let’s cut the insincerity, shall we? Truth is that you are hoping something bad happens to “teach me a lesson” and everyone knows it.
Now, to facts.
“They constantly put their own lives at risk everyday trying to keep yours and mine safe.” Feel free to look this up, but the risks of dying on the job run substantially higher for garbagemen than they do for cops. Go down to the local substation and gaze upon the ‘memorial wall’ and read the clippings for the ONE deputy killed in the line of duty in the Antelope Valley…then consider how many unarmed and barely armed ‘suspects’ they have gunned down. Then tell me how they are putting it all on the line when they are out collecting fines for Imperious Rex.
“I don’t see you…” No, you don’t see me because you don’t know me, or the first thing about me. If my neighbor needs CPR there is a very good chance they will call me first, and if they do it is a certainty I will get there ahead of any deputy. And I won’t be casing their house for an opportunity to make a bust out of their misfortune in the process. I also won’t enter waving a gun and shoot their grandfather when he reaches for his glasses…because, y’know, officer safety.
“Why do they deserve some respect? Jeez, I can’t even begin to fathom….” Neither can I, and your misinformed propaganda flacking hasn’t changed my opinion in the least.
Cali Palmdale says
I think the problem is that Criminals now have more rights than any law enforcement they don’t fallow orders they always do something st++d just to see if they can get hurt or shoot and survive so they can sue and get some easy money. I sure if I get stopped fallow orders comply give my name or what they ask for and im gone in five mts I would never try something dumb to get me shoot. I THINK ALL LAW DEPARTMENTS SHOULS GO ON STRIKE FOR A WEEK AND SEE HOW ALL those who think they are wrong react and also try and put yourself in a cops place you are outnumbered 100 criminals to 5 cops what would you do?????
Tim Scott says
You do realize that pinning a badge on someone doesn’t give them the authority to wander around GIVING orders, right? So why exactly do you think law abiding tax paying citizens should be expected to just FOLLOW these orders?
ERIK says
My advise to the public:
Go on a “ride-along” and you will see first hand how a lot of folks in the community treat our law-enforcement. It has been almost 10 years since I have done so and I am sure that the attitude on the street is far worse now.
That is the real scandal here.
Tim Scott says
Why is it a scandal? What do cops do to “deserve” respect? I don’t expect to get respect from people I treat like dirt Even if I am technically in a position of authority I expect that I will have to earn the respect of my employees, or my kids, or whatever. Cops have created an environment where they are feared, not respected, and they now get to reap what they have sown. That isn’t the community’s fault.
nOmega says
Tim…Wow..
God forbid you or someone you care for ever get hurt or have a medical issue or get in a terrible car accident or have someone come after them and become a victim of a violent crime (or any crime). Those men and women in tan and green are the first people there trying to help. They constantly put their own lives at risk everyday trying to keep yours and mine safe. Is every officer a good one? No. But are all people good? I don’t think so. Why does law enforcement deserve our respect? I don’t see you getting stolen cars back or performing cpr on a baby who stopped breathing or going into a foot chase with a guy who just beat his wife up and put her in the hospital, or getting shot at just for pulling a guy over for speeding, or a million other things these people see on an every day basis. They see the worst of society as a whole and have to keep on trucking, trying to make it better any way they can. Knowing that some of these people and some problems will be there again tomorrow. Why do they deserve some respect? Jeez, I can’t even begin to fathom….