The Antelope Valley Times

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L.A. County to pay nearly $1 million in Palmdale man’s jail suicide

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LOS ANGELES – The Board of Supervisors voted Tuesday to pay nearly $1 million to settle two lawsuits brought by the wife of a 58-year-old Palmdale man who hung himself in a county jail cell in 2013.

Kurt Guenther — whose obituary described him as an Air Force veteran and aerospace engineer — was arrested for allegedly assaulting a police officer and a firefighter.

Guenther told deputies he wanted to kill himself and was placed on suicide watch while at the sheriff’s Palmdale station, according to a summary provided to the board.

He was seen by staff at Palmdale Regional Medical Center before he was transferred downtown to the county jail system’s Inmate Reception Center.

Paperwork sent along with Guenther to the IRC, indicating that he was at risk of suicide, wasn’t forwarded to the clinical social worker who evaluated him at the jail, according to the summary.

Guenther told that clinician that he wasn’t thinking of suicide. He was assessed as having a “sad” mood and sent to Twin Towers Correctional Facility.

Three days later, radiologists alerted the jail that Guenther might have tuberculosis. Before transferring him to an isolation cell, a social worker conducted a psychiatric evaluation and Guenther said he wasn’t thinking of hurting himself or anyone else.

About 52 hours after that evaluation was completed, Guenther was found hanging in his cell.

Guenther’s wife, Martha, filed two lawsuits, one in Los Angeles and one in federal court, against the Sheriff’s Department and the Department of Mental Health, alleging that her husband’s civil rights had been violated.

County lawyers recommended settling the two cases for $999,995, citing the “risks and uncertainties of litigation,” according to board documents.

A 2014 assessment by the Department of Justice found that 15 inmates committed suicide in 30 months in Los Angeles County lockups and that some of those deaths could have been prevented.

The agency concluded that despite continued federal prodding, the Los Angeles County jail system failed to sufficiently protect mentally ill inmates and violated their civil rights. The assessment cited “widespread lapses with regard to basic supervision of prisoners at risk” and a “suicide review process that often includes inaccurate information.”

Clinical staff are now required to complete a formal suicide risk assessment checklist on all mental health clients evaluated at the Inmate Reception Center.

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40 comments for "L.A. County to pay nearly $1 million in Palmdale man’s jail suicide"

  1. lol his crime was being suicidal and the punishment was to be left alone in a cell with things he could use to be suicidal. He should have been taken to a psychiatric hospital, placed on medication and put through therapy for a few weeks…. not left alone with his thoughts and no medical intervention. What a joke.

  2. You can end up in County jail on some pizz-ant BS misdemeanor garbage and once you’re in there the pigs treat you like you’re a serial killer. They get off on it, it makes them feel like big men. And you’ll realize these punk cops are probably committing more serious crimes than the reason you landed in a cage. We all know how much cops love drinking and driving because they get a free pass if pulled over because they joined the team that wins at any cost, even if it means cheating.

    • OR………… you could always try NOT committing those “pizz-ant BS misdemeanors” so you don’t land in County Jail! Been working for me for many years now. Just sayin’.

      • ….said the slave. Continue thinking you live in a free country, the government needs people like you.

      • Or be accessed of something you didn’t commit and be jailed for decade’s. It’s happened to hundred of ppl who didn’t commit b.s crimes. Explain that. Innocent and life gets taken away treated like animals for years and then society (people like you ) wants to judge.

    • Yeap, they investigate their own and never find them guilty of any wrong doing. These POS cops are costing the tax payers millions of tax dollars every year.

      • @pirrurris
        yes kinda like Obama letting Eric Holder investigate himself in the “Fast and Furious” scandals. Can you believe he found himself not guilty even though those guns keep showing up again and again. The latest one El Chappo had in his hands!!

    • Exactly right. But you can buy property illegally, siphon $10 million dollars in taxpayer money to your political contributor’s spy plane company, and have your friend sell property to Walmart as residential property than have him vote to make it commercial after you appoint him to the Planning Commission and never even come close to getting in trouble. What a place.

  3. I have a family member going through the same in Kern County Jail. Has been hospitalized in the past. Mental health Phycs. seem to think he’s well. He has attempted suicide 3 different times. The attorneys have had all paperwork pertaining to his mental illness,and no one listens. I dread something like this will happen to him. Even if he wasn’t a relative, I just imagine the horror he lives. Stop and listen what if this happened to you or your loved ones. It’s heartbreaking. And it’s sad how you cannot have hurt for these mental health patients. It’s not their fault. Just imagine putting your pet in a cage and not let him out, but one hour every 3 or more days. Sometimes the law suits are to get attention. These people need proper help. They are human.

  4. From the comments it seems most people overlook one big detail that someone failed to forward the paperwork the shows that this man was under suicide watch etc. That’s why they have a reason to sue and obviously won because someone failed to do their job.

    • This man lied to hospital in the area about his previous “suicide attempts”. Check his hospital records in the area. Hmmm. Why not lie to LA Sheriff’s department?

        • True JFK but we have a mayor who is obsessed by two dead terrorists in a cemetery in the town next to him. We are overrun by crime and all he can do is make a fuss about dead people who can do no harm. Things are so bad he has to draw attention to something else.

      • What difference does that make? The sheriffs were called to STOP A SUICIDE ATTEMPT. If he convincingly lied then there was no reason to take him into custody in the first place.

        Call sheriff to stop your husband from killing himself, sheriffs come and arrest him and let him kill himself. Million dollars, all day long. I think the county got off lightly, truth be told. Probably a case of taking a small payout sooner rather than have them drag their feet.

  5. I hesitated before posting this response to the numerous postings about the Guenther settlement with Los Angeles County, because it would take hours to fully explain all of the factual background of the case. I am the attorney who represented Mrs. Guenther in this case. Perhaps some of these facts will change your mind about the matter — did you all know that Mrs. Guenther CALLED the police that day because she came home and found her husband in the garage, with a rope noose already made with which to hang himself? He showed her the noose and told her he was going to hang himself. She called the police and told them this. They assured her they would take him to the hospital for treatment. At the inmate reception center, they found that he WAS at risk for suicide, but none of that information was passed along to the evaluators at the jail. Thus, the foreseeability of his suicide attempt is crystal clear. Also, consider that many individuals who are suspected of being suicidal, and who really want to kill themselves, will lie about not being suicidal so that they can accomplish the suicide without being monitored. That is why the history of the individual is so important. The United States Department of Justice issued a scathing report in June 2014, finding that Los Angeles County violated Mr. Guenther’s constitutional rights in connection with their failures. That is not my finding, but rather a finding by the United States Government.

    Many of your postings ignore the fact that Mr. Guenther was seriously mentally ill. No one would ever blame a person for having cancer, but many DO want to blame those who have mental illness, something that they similarly cannot control. If any of you saw the injuries inflicted by the police on Mr. Guenther just a couple of days earlier, perhaps you might understand better his total frame of mind. Individuals have constitutional rights to proper medical care while in custody — when the state takes someone into custody, that person can no longer choose to go see a doctor on his own, call a psychiatrist, etc. Those obligations become that of the state. The fundamental reasoning behind this constitutional right is that the state cannot subject a person in custody to cruel and unusual punishment. I am not at all excusing or condoning Mr. Guenther’s domestic abuse issues. However, if we as a society choose to decide which citizens do and which citizens do not have constitutional rights, imagine the slippery slope that would occur. Does the affluent 17 year old teenager, who is arrested for drunk driving and becomes depressed and suicidal when in custody of the police, have greater constitutional rights to medical care because generally speaking, he is a decent kid? That would convert our society into one that assesses the QUALITY of the human being as being the factor that determines whether medical care will be given. If you take a minute to think it thorough, I am confident that you will agree that the constitution should be applied to all of our citizens equally, lest we have no standards by which to determine precisely what those rights are.

    Finally, give Los Angeles a little credit. Knowing all of the facts, and having extremely competent defense lawyers, the County determined that yes, it did make errors in Mr. Guenther’s case. Why would the County voluntarily agree to pay such an amount of money if it believed it did nothing wrong? The jury would have been selected from amongst all of you — members of society.

    I respect each and every of your opinions — isn’t it just wonderful to have the Constitutional right to express your opinions freely and without fear recrimination? That is what makes America what it is.

    • Call the cops to keep husband from committing suicide, cops arrest him and let him commit suicide. That’s a wrap. Another job well done. Million dollars.

    • Ok, my opinion is attorneys like you are looking to make a buck off the cash cow taxpayers.just my opinion, under the constitution.question, if this person murdered 10 children, was suicidal, and the cops failed to stop him, would you still sue?

    • I respect the fact that he was mentally ill but if so why was he hospitalized and not at home. He should have been.

    • I am a 23 year old girl. Suicide watch CAUSES suicidal action. I was on suicide watch in jail for 5 days last month. Before this I had suicidal thoughts in the past but never made an attempt before. I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and psychotic PTSD. When they brought me to jail I missed my regular dosage of medication. THAT IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. I was on a cocktail of medications to reduce my PTSD symptoms and keep me from falling into a very deep depression. Within a few hours I was clinically psychotic and so placed into an isolation cell. Having PTSD this was very dangerous for me (being alone and locked up) as it reminded me of being in captivity. I normally took all my medications twice a day, very large dosages, and to suddenly go without them sent me into a very low mood (depression) and a constant flashback of my trauma (intense anxiety).

      I attempted suicide by hanging myself with a towel. I was actually doing it mostly to get attention I just wanted to call my mom and my doctor. I was glad that they stopped me. I wanted to get transferred to a psychiatric hospital asap (I had been in one before and I knew they would get me on my regular meds again). I was arrested at a peaceful protest and not told that the actual reason for my arrest was a warrant. I forgot to pay a ticked for failing re-register my car. I had forced myself to go to the dmv to fix my car, but I forgot to go to court. It was a major struggle just to leave my house with PTSD.

      I owed $230; which I could easily pay, but it made no difference after I had been arrested. Then you can only pay with time apparently, but no one explained any of this to me. I was just thrown into a cell without explanation. I did tell them that I had PTSD and other psychatric issues. I told them I needed to talk to my mom and my doctor. I told them that I needed my meds. All of this information was ignored and used to put me in isolation without explanation.

      So I was scared, confused, off my medications, and convinced I would be locked up and forgotten forever on a mistake. I thought they had confused me with someone else or something. So I tried to kill myself. Well the cops came in so angry that I had killed myself (I looked dead) they yanked on me and almost broke my neck. I said I was still alive and they calmed down. The lead guy came in and said “Now you go to suicide watch!”

      It was an all concrete cell with a window in the corner (but it was covered in a white frost so nothing to see, and too high anyways). A single light in the corner above a sink and a single toilet. I was not allowed clothing or shoes. There was a 100% polyester smuch and sleeping bag on the ground. The smuch was put together with velcro and I didn’t understand how to put it on. I was naked so they covered up the window to my cell with a black sheet, still countless CO’s peered in over the top and saw me naked. THere was no reason for this I was being monitered on video and it was clear I was just sitting there. The first day I was angry that I hadn’t been given my phone call or told why I was arrested still. I took my toilet paper and wet it and threw it at the camera. I wasn’t given another roll the entire time I was in. So after I peed I started having to wash myself in the sink to avoid getting a rash. They also turned off my sink and then I had no option but to get a rash. I also had no way to get water.

      The first night was rough. They left my light on the same amount of brightness as the day time. I sat through the first 24 hours not doing anything else to act up. I couldn’t sleep in the light. It’s already hard enough to force myself to sleep with PTSD nightmares. I told the doctor the next day I was fine and they could take me off suicide watch. I asked to make my phone call. Both requests were denied. I begged for my medications (I had been on the highest dosages of four different meds outside of jail) and I was put on one single medication to help (it was a very small dosage and seemed to do nothing, my body was used to the max dosage of four other medications).

      The second day I started acting up again. I refused to eat and dumped all my food in the toilet. They turned my toilet off. By the end of the day my cell smelled horrible because I wasn’t allowed to flush. I threw food around in my cell too. I yelled that my rights had been violated.

      I had a right to a phone call.

      I had a right to know why I was being held.

      I had a right to clean cell.

      I had a right to time outside of my cell.

      I had a right to a public defender.

      All things I yelled at the CO’s over and over to be ignored more. I got really messy hoping it would cause them to help me and I also went psychotic. I was dehydrated I went two days without access to water. I was only given milk at meals. I started convincing myself I had killed my entire family and that was why I was here. I was a monster and that’s why everyone thought I deserved punishment. My sister and neices had refused to talk to me since Christmas. I started thinking I had killed them that last night. I really thought I had and I freaked out again. Finally after sitting in a terrible mess for 24 hours they came to my cell and threw me on the ground. They cuffed my hands and my feet very tightly and brought me down the hall to a regular holding cell. I remember limping because the cuffs on my ankles cut open the skin after just a few steps. That opened up the skin to infection. I smelled horrible but I wasn’t given access to a shower.

      They chained me to the bench inside the cell and left me alone again. They left me chained there for 12 hours without water. I literally screamed and begged for water for hours and was completely ignored.

      They came back the next day. I remember the main CO guy asking me questions. He said “where were you just now”

      I said “hell”

      where are you now (we were back at my suicide cell) “vacation”

      who am I? “my dad”

      “I’ve never head that one before!” he said looking me in the eyes

      I said “he’s in your eyes”

      because my dad is dead, I thought maybe this was the guy that got the transplant. He had grey eyes like my dad. I started to think they did experimental procedures on people here. That my dad’s organs had been taken here and given to people by force to experiement on them. That he didn’t die a hero at all and had instead been apart of torture in his death.

      I was placed back into my cell which they had cleaned. I drank a ton of water from the sink but it was probably unfiltered (I didn’t care) I had a bad internal infection, infections in my wounds and a few simple rashes from improper sanitation. My breath smelled like death and I knew that was a really bad sign. I begged the CO to let me see a nurse. The nurse came by the one time a day. I begged to be seen but didn’t know I had to write a kite. No one explained the kite system to me. But they are written requests for things such as health care. I remember the nurse walking by and curling her upper lip because my cell smelled so bad with me in it. This was after three days. She refused to see me since I hadn’t written a kite.

      I started screaming about my rights non stop again. I saw others taken to court and demaned they take me too. So they did. They brought me to the court room (actually made me walk in my chains again which was extremely pain ful). I went into the bathroom and attempted to wash my hair. It was already a total knot. As soon as I got out I had to get most of my hair cut off because it was badly tangled. It took me years and years to grow out.

      Anyways, I smelled really bad and the other inmates didn’t want to talk to me. Especially because I still had all my chains on which met I was in suicide watch and the other prisoners were allowed to sit unchained. One told me about the kite system and I told a CO I needed to write a kite. He said if I went back to him I could write one. I told him I hadn’t seen a judge yet and he lied and said I would come back later. I wouldn’t go to court again for two days and the first time I went they just took me to get me to shutup. I was very tired too. I remember I kept falling asleep for a few seconds every few minutes; the dangerous micro sleeps that you only get after several days sleep deprivation.

      Back in my suicide cell I was left naked and alone again. I was not given my kite as promised (to request health care). I begged the CO’s for kites and was simply denied one of the basic rights your are supposed to get in jail. I thought for certain I would die of infection. I hit my head into the wall so hard I don’t remember doing it. All I remember now is the CO saying

      “Are you confused?”

      “Yes.”

      “That’s because you knocked yourself the fuck out!”

      So on the third day, I shoved my smuch in the toilet and flooded my cell. They responded by turning off the toilet and the sink again. I didn’t care I was fucking pissed. Well 12 hours later I really started to care. It was freezing cold and I was naked. My smuch and my sleeping bag were totally soaked in water so I couldn’t get them at all dry or warm. I was forced to walk in a circle in my cell for the next 12 hours. I thought if I stopped I would get frost bite (probably true) because I was so cold. I remember being very tired. I would sit down in the water sometimes and fall asleep for a few seconds. I wanted to sleep so badly but I couldn’t because I was shivering and cold.

      I remember staring at the plastic shoes on the other side of the door. The dry cotton clothes. I would have done ANYTHING for them.

      I told the CO’s “Do you know what it is like to walk on cold hard concrete for 12 hours?”

      and they just ignored me.

      I remember the doctor coming by after 24 hours of that. He asked me how I was doing. I just said COLD. He said we are taking you off suicide watch but you aren’t ready for general population yet. I said OK. He said we are putting you in isolation. We will get you some clothes.

      A few cells down a man had been screaming and banging against the door for hours. When the doctor opened his slot to talk to him the man said

      CELL ON FIRE

      OPEN DOOR

      I can’t do that

      CELL ON FIRE WHAT ARE YOU STUPID OPEN THE DOOR

      He probably had the same rash that covered my face and parts of my body (it felt like a second degree burn) all over his body and that’s why he was convinced the room was on fire. I felt horrible for the guy. He needed medical intervention immediately and I knew he wouldn’t be getting it.

      It still took them hours to finally take me from that cell to isolation. I was forced to walk with tight chains and carrying my blanket and stuff down a long walk outside. It was a very long walk with the chains cutting into my ankles, but I was just so happy to finally be outside again.

      I was placed into the isolation cell in the general population. I could look out my window at other priosers but they were supposed to ignore me. And they did. I spent 8 hours there and I was finally allowed out for my first ever hour of free time. I walked over to the rules list and tried to understand them. The first rule was that you had to know the rules and I laughed at that because it was impossible. It said you could make unlimited phone calls after you made some sort of account with your family but you had to make it before going to jail. I was so confused and terrified I would get in trouble again. I went to the phone but when I dialed it was dead. I didn’t understand how to make this free account and get my code to make phone calls. Commissary worked the same way. I gave up on that and went to take a shower. That was a god send because I had very bad rashes and infections. I asked for kites and finally recieved them. But the nurse couldn’t help me. I had to wait 24 hours to see her and I asked for lotion and was told that was a comissary item. I wasn’t allowed outside of my cell again.

      It was day 5 and I was taken to court. I was clean and that was nice but my hair was totally fucked up. I plead guilty to the ticket (I already plead guilty to that back in October, btw) and they said “5 days due, 5 days credit, you will be released tonight” I was ecstatic. Back in my cell I couldn’t believe it would finally be over. Each CO that passed was closer to my release, weren’t they?

      But then it was midnight. ANd I was NOT released. I wasn’t released the next DAY either. I kept asking WHY. At free time, I wasn’t let out again and I didn’t get to know why. They said I was on the list to be released but didn’t have a time yet. Finally the next morning I was told it was finally time. I was brought to an area where they gave me back my clothes and the items I had one me at the time of my arrest. I had to wait there for a few more hours. Finally the put me in a van with a bunch of men who were also GETTING OUT OF JAIL and then dumped us on a corner in the middle of no where and left me with all those scary men. I walked to the corner and called my mom, she picked me up 15 minutes later.

      And that is what happens if you are placed on suicide watch in jail and you have major psychiatric issues already. I nearly killed myself and also died from lack of proper medical care. It is a very broken and dangerous system that can only be fixed if people like me bring the issues to light.

  6. Another day, another uneducated fool wanting our cops to be social workers. If a person is interviewed by several staff members and says he’s not going to kill himself, how is it the jailer’s fault when he does? If someone really wants to commit suicide, they’re going to do it. The guy was a crook, who apparently got himself shot years ago, then managed to get himself arrested again in this incident, but ignorant fools want to blame it on the cops. If this is the same female involved in both cases, hope she’s a little smarter with her $$$ than she was in her choice of men!

    • Why is it that the only time you are the least bit sympathetic to criminals is when they wear a badge?

      No one wants “cops to be social workers.” Cops are legally responsible for the welfare of people in their custody, period. LEGALLY required. Failure to follow the law has consequences, even for cops, because we don’t all live in your fantasyland of “cops have good intentions so if things go wrong give them a pass.”

    • More like another million pilfered by lawyers. It’s hard for me to see how, after multiple interviews in which he said he was doing fine, the jail was at fault. There’s a reason that people support the police and consider lawyers scum.

      • There’s also a reason that the number of people who support the police has dwindled down to basically themselves and their families.

        Tolerating them as a necessary evil is even wearing thin at this point.

        • “dwindled down” among whom, exactly?

          You and the rest of the common thugs, hustlers, rapists, prostitutes and drug dealers????

          Yes, by all means, keep trying to convince yourself! I know multitudes of people who support law enforcement and will continue to do so, as will I.

          • I have spent years badmouthing cops to pretty much everyone I encounter. In my business I told customers that I did not take cops as clients. When I shop I tell people who wait on me that employment does not define a protected class under equal opportunity so they can refuse service to cops, and I think that they should. I have shouted truly hateful things at cops on the street, sparking plenty of conversations.

            When I say support for cops is dwindling, I am basing that on the responses I get in these situations. Years ago, about a quarter of the time someone would stick up for the cops. In the past couple years, other than “my father/brother/sister/cousin/whatever is a cop” I have hardly heard a peep of support.

            It isn’t a scientific pure collection of statistics, but it is sufficient to support a claim on a comments section. Other than your personal opinion, what have you got?

          • And again Cleo has nothing on topic to say, and will be whining shortly about how “all my posts get deleted.”

          • Would that be criminals without badges, or criminals with badges like the ones in this case, that this “left” supposedly supports?

          • Do it yourself flint.

            There is NOTHING illegal about expressing a HOPE. So “I hope if you ever get shot they miss your vest” or “I hope you choke on your lunch” when they are in line at a fast food place, or just a general “I hope you die on the job” are perfectly legal things to say.

            Now, if you think that cops will get mad and take the opportunity to administer some sort of violence when no crime has been committed then you are supporting my point. Is that your intention?

            By the way, make sure you are being recorded so they don’t misquote you. I have no doubt that cops will stray FAR outside the law, so that recording may be your lifeline. Use a cell phone connected to a remote recording device.

      • The lawyers always walk away with the money while the victims get peanuts. No one does it better than our sue happy mayor.

    • Mr. Know It All_Criminal Apologist strikes again!

      Sure, there are some cops who are complete d-bags, but they are a tiny number!

      You’re absolutely bat$h!+ crazy if you think the rest of all agree with your anti-cop attitude and rhetoric.

      Your constant apologetics for criminals is getting really redundant and nauseating. Yes, you hate cops, I think you’ve made that perfectly clear to the rest of us! We get it!

      • My opinion of them has nothing to do with them losing the county yet another million dollars. That’s a result of their criminal behavior. Speaking of apologizing for criminals, why are you?